- This topic has 3 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated July 4, 2020 at 11:53 am by Adrian Crafer.
July 2, 2020 at 9:31 am #165342Martin ShawParticipant
I have recently purchased several volumes of Neil Parkhouse’s colour albums of the railways around the Forest of Dean and the Gloucester area, and superbly evocative they are. Eastgate was the MR station in the city and I have noticed that there is a mix of (LMR?) upper quadrant tubular post signals, and several former GWR signals, especially brackets where a UQ arm has been grafted on. The question I have is, did the GWR/WR have responsibiltiy for S&T matters on former LMS lines in the area, and did it revert back to the LMR at some point?
MartinJuly 4, 2020 at 12:47 am #165359The SignalmanKeymaster
As you rightly say, Gloucester Eastgate was pure Midland Railway territory and I am not aware of any GWR input. The chain of ownership would have passed to the LMS and then BR (LMR) in 1948.
Others may be able to give an exact date*, but in the early days of BR it would have passed from LMR to WR responsibility for geographical convenience. My suspicions are that the signals you see in photographs would have been installed after that change. Are they all tubular-post?
* – possibly 1958, when Gloucester Barnwood loco shed, and others like Bromsgrove, adopted WR-series shed codes.
If so (and I can’t tell without seeing the photographs, which obviously I cannot) then I suspect what you are seeing are WR upper quadrant signals rather than LMR arms “grafted on”.
The WR did indeed manufacture and install upper-quadrant signals and as time passes I am discovering more and more existed. Whether it was a rule from above they had to comply with or just their choice, I don’t know. But it has become clear they did not normally install lower quadrant signals during renewals on the metals of companies whose policies had been to use upper-quadrants before WR control. Example existed on former GCR territory in London and L&SWR metals in the west of England. I see no reason why the same wouldn’t happen on the large chunk of Midland Railway territory that passed to the WR.
JohnJuly 4, 2020 at 8:11 am #165360RailWestParticipant
>>>The WR did indeed manufacture and install upper-quadrant signals and as time passes I am discovering more and more existed….
Certainly an old MR-style (though probably actually dating from LMS days) wooden bracket signal at Bath Junction was replaced by WR UQ in the 1960s.
On the other hand….
>>> they did not normally install lower quadrant signals during renewals on the metals of companies whose policies had been to use upper-quadrants before WR control. Example existed on former GCR territory in London and L&SWR metals in the west of England…
….while the WR did install a couple of UQ arms + tubular posts at Topsham, they also installed a couple of WR-style LQ signals at the same place and also at Exmouth Junction (when the line to Topsham was singled). Given the number of WR LQs also installed at Crediton and Barnstaple (Junction), they seem to have given up bothering with UQ after a while 🙂July 4, 2020 at 11:53 am #165361Adrian CraferParticipant
The issue of WR upper quadrant signals is it seems to me quite complex. I have a drawing of a pressed steel spectacle plate, with an add on cast iron counter balance weight. The drawing is incomplete insofar as it does not show how this weight is attached. The drawing of the weight also does not have any fixing holes, though it does tell us the weight weighs 21lbs. Were these early design drawings? were any produced?
The casting pattern for the cast iron version has clearly judging from the rapping holes had more than the normally quoted 2 cast from it. Whether I have a complete set of patterns for stops, spindle bearings and lamp brackets, I am not sure. I do not have a GA so I do not know how it all goes together, so whether I have the correct patterns for a Set I do not know.
The western also fitted GWR style lamps to LMS signals. There is a variation on the normal cruciform WR bracket which was presumably bolt on the cast bracket where the Adlake lamp would have been fitted on LM structures.
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